So this is a conversation I had with a friend about a week ago:
Me: Did you see the post on Blog X?
Friend: You mean where he put up a picture of a poster in Williamsburg that tells women to move to a side when men are likely to bump into them?
Me: Yep, that’s the one.
Friend: Ugh, disgusting. The frummies keep making up new chumrahs every day.
Me: But that poster is just put up by one meshugane guy. Same guy who hires a car with a microphone every chol hamoed, shouting that no one should go and see the plays and presentations performed at different venues. He’s a fruitcake.
Friend: It doesn’t matter. The poster reflects what people think.
Me: Really? Have you been to Williamsburg lately? I challenge you to stand at a street corner and watch the pedestrian traffic. Keep a running count of how many men move aside for women and vice versa. I’m willing to bet in advance that you’ll find fewer women moving aside for men than the other way around. So obviously, people don’t think this is normal.
Friend: That’s not an accurate way of assessing these things. If there are such posters hanging in Williamsburg, it means the powers in Williamsburg approve it and believe this admonishment of women is correct.
Me: Well, in the subway at Union Square today, there were about fifteen people holding posters and pamphlets that claimed the world was coming to an end. Apparently, Judgment Day was almost here, and we were all done for. If your argument is correct, that would mean New Yorkers approve this message and believe it to be accurate.
Friend: Sorry, I don’t have time to discuss this further. My final starts in an hour, so I gotta run.
So here I am, one week later, still not sure whether I’m right or wrong. I hate when an argument doesn’t play itself out.
Its been a week maybe your friend done with the final and u can continue rigth where u left off. Kep us posted...
ReplyDeleteI have one question for you, blogger: How do you know on behest of whom the poster was hung?
ReplyDeleteMordy, you're right, I have no proof. I simply assume that it's he. He allegedly has a bit of money and tends to spend it on such nonsense. Regardless, this doesn't seem to be a new frummie chumrah; no rav, as far as I know, has mentioned this in his lectures. :)
ReplyDeleteOften time the posters are unwritten by rabbis, leading rabbis. Hell, even from the high court in Jerusalem:
ReplyDeletehttp://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/05/williamsburg-wall-posters-456.html
Maybe they don't reflect the concerns of the average Willi Chaim-Mordechai, but it's the ideal.
HH, ha! Excellent comeback with your use of the word *ideal*. But as is apparent on the collection of posters, this particular one has no signature. Note the difference (plenty of signatures!) on the poster about the stocking colors, which is an actual hasidic "ideal."
ReplyDeleteThe ideals are published in mainstream newspapers and/or are signed by rabbanim. Anyone is free to put up any other sort of poster, of course. But you cannot say it's the community's ideal. We're in a free country, after all. Even in Jewland. ;)
Same thing. Both are appeals for feminine propriety. If anything, reservedness and submissiveness are traditional modesty values, whereas covering up every inch of skin is not.
ReplyDeleteForget about traditional, HH. Nothing about today's dress code has anything to do with tradition. We're discussing current hasidic ideals and norms. And which ones, as a rule, people are abiding by.
ReplyDeleteI got a nice shout-out from David Assaf, one of my idols. Check it out. www.onegshabbat.blogspot.com
ReplyDelete