Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Hasidic Women: Equal or Abused?

Back in 1923, S.A. Horodecky, a noted scholar on hasidism, made the claim that hasidism confers complete equality on the Jewish woman.[1] Ada Rapoport debunked his theory approximately sixty years later, but up to then, the understanding among scholars was that hasidism boasted a more egalitarian gender perspective than did other branches of Judaism.[2] This theory was mostly unexamined; scholars merely accepted Horodecky’s findings as fact and built their own work upon this alleged fact.
I point out this tidbit not because I want to re-investigate the Horodecky/Rapoport argument (I find modern hasidism such a different creature from the original hasidic movement that I see no point in using the movement’s early attitudes as a yardstick for measuring today’s), but rather because I revel in the irony. Namely, the irony of the contemporary acknowledged “fact” of hasidism’s gender inequality.
Nowadays, the regarded theoretical norm—unexamined, mostly, much like Horodecky’s findings—by both Jewish and non-Jewish pseudo-scholars and laymen is that women within the hasidism construct hold a lowly position in every aspect. It seems Horodecky’s findings have become irrelevant: not only is hasidism not regarded as affording women more equality than other Jewish denominations do, but the “pitiful, subjugated, mistreated second-class hasidic woman” has become the modern stereotype.
Part of the reason for this stereotype, I believe, is a trickle-down effect of feminists’ struggle within Judaism. Their valiant efforts to make a place for women in formal Judaism has led to numerous discussions, writings, and debates on the matter, all of which have helped some women achieve positions as Rabbis, Talmudic scholars and other capacities of status in Judaism’s public space, albeit mainly in non-Orthodox denominations. But the constant criticism of Orthodox Judaism’s lack of opportunity for female status positions led the general public—who most likely have but a shallow interest or understanding of the matter—to ascertain that OJ treats women shabbily in general. And who is the most conspicuously orthodox of the Orthodox? The hasidim, of course. Ergo, hasidism views and treats women as second class.
To the world at large (barring some scholars, sociologists, or anthropologists who have taken the time to actually observe and/or participate in the contemporary hasidic society instead of just buying into stereotypes, but absolutely including people who comment “knowledgably” on facebook, twitter and online blogs), this generally means that girls and women have less value as people within hasidic society, that hasidic husbands mistreat and abuse their wives[3], that women are treated as cattle and don’t get a say in how they and their families live their lives.
How the gender theory on hasidism has moved from Horodecky’s radical egalitarianism to women being consistently abused in less than a century is one of the marvels of  modern day technology, where everyone may espouse authoritatively on every topic on the world wide web, regardless of veracity or her/his expertise on the subject. Furthermore, film-makers, novelists, and even journalists tend to take the easy path when depicting hasidim, simply presenting them according to the prevailing stereotype. Although Orthodox Judaism forbids spousal abuse, and although—as hasidic insiders know—most hasidic wives “rule the roost,” the stereotype of the docile, submissive, abused hasidic woman remains  the conventional truism. Perhaps it is time for another Ada Rapoport to dig deep enough to actually discover the truth.



[1] See Ha-Hasidut vehaHasidim, the chapter entitled “The Maid of Ludmir” by S.A. Horodecky
[2] See “On Women in Hasidism, S.A. Horodecky and The Maid of Ludmir Tradition” by Ada Rapoport-Albert
[3] See Wendy Graf’s interview about her play Behind the Gates

20 comments:

  1. I believe Hassidic women today are oppressed not because of patriarchal dominance but as a result of excessive chastity and dogmatic adherence to quaint sources with bias against women.
    Because of the obsessive separation of sexes women are pushed to sideways and barred from public vanues or from public office.

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  2. HH, I assume that by public office you mean positions as rabbis or dayanim. But what exactly do you mean by public venues?

    Also, in which way are hasidic women oppressed by "dogmatic adherence to quaint sources" more than hasidic men are?

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  3. I don’t think that Chasidim are viewed as abusive in the full sense of the word. They are just rigidly hierarchical and paternalistic, with women at a lower status than men in areas that matter most. In a society where the highest achievement is intellectual pursuits (i.e. studying Torah), to deny that opportunity—even when those who are denied it are complicit for lack of knowing any better—is definitely a serious cause for alarm in a modernistic society. No amount of apologetics would change that.

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  4. According to Genesis, women were created as an afterthought and as a companion to men. Men thank God every day for not making them a woman, while women acquiescently thank God for being whatever they are. So much for the psychological effect. In practice, Hassidic women are absent from religious as well as social public life. Women aren't politicians, don't drive, and aren't mentioned in publications by proper name (Jane vs. Mrs. John). Are the Hassidic sexes equal? Certainly not. Are the women abused? Mostly not. Do Hassidic women feel oppressed? This is an individualistic question, and for many, I believe, the answer is yes.

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  5. Anonymous, I don't disagree with you. In fact, this is precisely what feminists in the Reform/Conservative/Modern Orthodox denominations fought against. However, I don't think this was the topic addressed in my post. Rather, my thesis is about the erroneous perception of women within Hasidism as docile, abused beings. Please check the comments on online blogs that talk about hasidim or listen to comments outsiders make when discussing hasidism in general. The prevalent view is that even on the social and domestic front (where, I believe, women rule), men make the decisions which women blindly follow. Additionally, spousal abuse is allegedly commonplace. Do you agree that these stereotypes are accurate?

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  6. HH,
    I agree with you that perhaps many hasidic women feel oppressed. I just doubt that it is their femaleness within hasidism that makes them feel that way. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that there are at least as many men as women who feel oppressed by the hasidic lifestyle. (Just to be clear, I believe this is a really small minority. Most hasidim feel that their religion and lifestyle gives their lives meaning, and it's difficult to feel oppressed with that viewpoint.)

    Re your Genesis comment and the shelo asani isha brocha. Sorry, but that's irrelevant. To the average hasid, these are just rote ideologies, not something he/she has internalized. In fact, they have probably internalized more from secular culture than from the blessings they mumble each day. And if you're familiar with Jewish history, you'll realize it's always been this way. Wherever they've lived, Jews have borrowed from and internalized the culture and viewpoints from their host countries.

    Re your women don't drive or aren't politicians point. Actually, if you're going to pick stuff that can make life more enjoyable, women would probably lead in the what's-accepted-in-hasidic-society category. And when I say "what's accepted," I don't mean what one can get away with. I mean things one can do and still be considered a "feiner yungerman" or a nice, erliche woman.

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  7. I wasn't talking about things acceptable. I was talking about putting up a public face. Women are kept backstage, and to a feminist that's the worst. A hostess may toil and moil to host an event, but it's the mister (and his "family") who reap the thanks.
    This age is different than past ages in history. Today Hasidim have marked a clear distinction between Torah values and values of the outside "goss". In the past Judaism was influences by Christianity and vice versa to a point where we're confused what's Christian, what's Jewish, or even how we define Jewish. Today it's a matter of traditional and secular, and whosoever is looking for the traditional has no trouble identifying it. We clearly hear strong voices from within Hassiddom, sounding as calls to the "woman of valor", upholding the traditional role of the woman in society.

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  8. HH, I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Women are kept backstage? Where? There are scores of parties hosted by women every week, and of course these women get recognition and credit for them. In fact, contrary to what you mentioned in an earlier post, their full names (not Mrs. John) are listed in the flyers and advertisements.
    Plus, there are plenty of women who are public speakers or business owners or simply socialites who spend their days lunching and shopping. How is this being stuck in the background? Your comment about the voices calling for "upholding the traditional role" actually proves that women aren't hiding in any background. If they were, why would a few fanatical "voices" have to sound the call for the "traditional role" if people were abiding by that anyway?

    I disagree that this age is different from the past. "Azoi vi es goyisht zich azoi yiddisht zich" is, I believe, as true today as ever. Listen to the discussions on parenting (by chinuch pros) and tell me we aren't influenced by western culture. Our obsession with weight, exercise, and looks in general -- not influenced? Our music, newspapers, judaica novels -- compare them to what was available twenty years ago and tell me if we're not imitating secular culture.

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  9. "the irony of the contemporary acknowledged “fact” of hasidism’s gender inequality."

    Seriously? A system that reduces its women to "want" to bear as many children as possible, to "want" to keep a tidy home, to study at school as a mere pastime, rather than for the acquisition of knowledge (a virtue hammered into every boys psyche with a rod or two), that inculcates its daughters with axioms such as אין לך אשה כשרה בנשים אלא אשה שהיא עושה רצון בעלה is equal?

    Such proverbs have no impact at all? Can you say so hand no heart? These tools of oppression must work or else their regurgitation would cease.

    Yes the women might have more freedom to sneak away for a movie here and there, the men however socialise daily in shul and over a beer on Friday night. Hardly a level playing field.

    Whilst the men might not know who Kant was, they do know who Luzzatto was. The men appreciate a good philosophical debate even if they have mere troglodytian tools at their disposal in so doing.

    Try discussing theological fatalism with a hasidic woman, every half decent yeshiva bochur has dabbled with it.

    "this generally means that girls and women have less value as people within hasidic society"

    And so they very much do, let us use real, objective and quantitative measures of equality, shall we? Equal pay for men and women in the workplace? How about inheritance? The best a daughter can hope for is to inherit half as much as the boys.

    Yes, you are right, they rule the roost, having full jurisdiction over the kitchen floor and stew stove.

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  10. True;
    Many Chasidic women ‘wear the pants’ in their home (pun unintended).
    Many Chasidic men are stuck with controlling, bitching wives.


    The intellectually inclined Chasidic woman who finds little joy in
    shopping and party hopping, is stifled and stuck in Chasidic society.
    To be appreciated and admired within Chasidic society, all a woman has
    to do is stay thin, be a great housewife, and dress all her children
    in matching Woppi outfits.



    These two statements are not mutually exclusive.


    While the individual woman can be the master and even tyrant in her own home,
    Chasidic society subjugates women by allowing them such restrictive
    and narrow forms of individual opportunity and expression.

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  11. Let me see if I can address each of your comments. Firstly, the one about women being able to sneak away to a movie does not refer to what I was saying. Both men and women can “sneak away” to a movie if they so wish. However, going to movies is not the accepted norm. Men having a beer Friday night and women taking fun trips together are accepted norms. If you review the accepted norms for girls and women, from age 8 to 80, and compare them with the accepted norms for boys and men of the same ages, I believe you will find that what I said earlier holds true: If you’re going to pick stuff that can make life more enjoyable and fun, women come out ahead in the Hasidic world.
    Regarding the value of women and men, which you claim is unequal. I’m not quite certain how you measure value (you didn’t really explain in your comment), but when I say value, I start by considering the value of their essence as humans. There are cultures where the birth of a son is cause for celebration and vice versa for a daughter. But among Hasidim, find me the person who—if given the choice—wouldn’t rather have more daughters than sons. In fact, a woman who has only sons is sort of pitied, whereas if one has only daughters, the typical comment is, “you can never have too many daughters.”
    But let’s get beyond birth. Are Hasidic parents less pained when their daughters are hurt than when their sons are hurt? Do Hasidic parents put in less effort in finding their daughters a suitable shidduch than finding one for their sons? Do Hasidic wives’ opinions matter? Do they have a say in matters of schooling for the children? If a man wants to start a new business, would he not discuss it with his wife and regard her opinion? Is the happiness of a woman important? If a woman wants to start a business, go to work at an office, take a yoga class, indulge in a creative hobby, are these choices not encouraged? All of these considerations speak to the value of women as people. I am sure there are specific men (as there are in every society) who denigrate their wives and children, but as a rule, I believe women as humans aren’t valued less than men in Hasidism.
    I’ll address your education and primogeniture points in a separate comment.

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  12. The ultimate measure of value is equal pay, and inheritance, i.e. money, that is my argument a logical idea found both the chumash and made by modern economists too if I'm not mistaken. The ones you use are subjective and we may disagree on statements of fact for which both have only anecdotal evidence.



    For example, I believe that there are more border control stamps in the passports of hasidic men then there are in those of women. OK they might argue kivrei tzadikim, but we all know what that is really all about.

    Shul is mostly a social pastime. To me men are dealt a far better hand as far as social meetings are concerned.

    I am not really talking about primogeniture, which many oldest sons decline as a right, but about inequality in inheritance for the sons over daughters.

    So compare the average school teachers wage to that of a melamed who has far less work and preparation.

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  13. Hasidic Women: Equal or Abused? Well, I'd say, equally abused.

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  14. Anonymous, I don't know how to respond to your claim that there's inequality in inheritance for sons over daughters, because I don't know such cases. Many people in my parents' social set have lost parents within the last few years, and I cannot think of a single instance where the sons got more than the daughters. I do know one family where the sons, in business with their dad, managed to get hold of all the money (a considerable sum) and cheated their sisters out of it. The mother of these children now refuses to talk to her sons. The entire community condemns these sons. I have to wonder, if what you're saying is common practice, why would the community be castigating these guys?

    Anyhow, equal pay for equal work is not only after death. In most families (and I'd venture to say this isn't limited to chassidim), it is the woman of the household who decides how the money is spent and, indeed, spends most of the money.So I don't think you can argue that women are discriminated against in matters of "pay."

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  15. Regarding Hoezen's comment. Firstly, when I said "ruling the roost," I didn't mean to imply "controlling, bitching wives." I dare say there are plenty of those, but they're just getting what they want by antagonistic measures, which means I can't consider their behavior a "societal norm." Rather, I meant that as a rule, the hasidic woman makes the decisions for her home. Place of residence, children's schooling, money matters, vacations... in most hasidic families (where couples have a harmonious relationship), the wife has more of a say in these matters.

    Your criticism of hasidic women who spend their lives keeping their homes clean and dressing their kids fashionably has merit. I don't, however, believe that it is hasidism that inculcates this standard ("daas torah" and Hebrew/Yiddish teachers consistently denounce materialism), but rather, the influence of A.secular culture and B.human nature. In New York, as in other cosmpolitan cities, fashion is huge. As I've said earlier, hasidim have always borrowed from and been influenced by their host countries or surroundings. Their obsession with looking good and dressing fashionably (albeit limited because of modesty standards) merely reflects that.

    Furthermore, it's human nature to look for the easy way out. To think requires effort. Creative and intellectual endeavors require effort. Even reading something with depth requires effort, which explains why Danielle Steele and John Grisham sell many more books than those who write works with literary merit. But shopping is generally easy and fun. In choosing to spend their lives in what you, apparently, consider a frivolous manner, these hasidic women are merely doing what most people do: living their lives expending as little mental effort as possible.

    I want to address the education question and the "narrow forms of expression available to women," but I'm short in time. I hope to do so in the future.

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  16. Anonymous, sorry, I just noticed your point about the inequality of teachers' and melamdim's wages; I mistakenly inferred that your equal pay comment related to the domestic front. You're absolutely right that teachers get paid much less than melamdim do. In fact, a teacher's salary in Hasidic NY (perhaps elsewhere too, but I don't have that info) is pathetically puny, unless she teaches high school, where the pay is more appropriate to the hours invested. However, this has nothing to do with hasidism subjugating women, and most likely not even anything to do with western society's unequal male/female pay in the workplace. It's simply a matter of economics. Capitalism operates on a supply/demand initiative. Each year, schools get way more applicants for teaching jobs than there are jobs available. I'm pretty sure some girls would take teaching jobs even if it offered nothing in pay! What motivation, then, do schools have to increase wages for their teachers?

    In the first two decades (approximately) of Satmar school's existence, teachers of English studies received higher salaries than their colleagues in the Yiddish department. I'm pretty sure no one will argue that Satmar considered English studies more important or more valuable than Yiddish. It was just that until Satmar's own graduates began to apply for teaching jobs in English, there was a dearth of applicants and therefore, a great demand for decent teachers. Higher demand = higher pay.

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  17. “Your criticism of hasidic women who spend their lives keeping their homes clean and dressing their kids fashionably has merit”.
    Ruchy, I think you misunderstood me. I didn’t say that to criticize Chasidic women for being materialistic. What I am trying to say is, that because of the extreme intellectual vacuum within Chasidic society, materialism is the (almost) only value Chasidic woman will pursue and engage in.
    For better or worse, Chasidic men are expected to grow, develop and perform in two cardinal areas; in torah learning, and in business. By default, that gives them more choice and more options to develop their intellect and their innate talents.
    “These Hasidic women are merely doing what most people do: living their lives expending as little mental effort as possible.”
    True, to some degree. That being said, there is a strong environmental factor at play. I highly doubt your typical Park Slope mom’s most favorite pastime is dressing up her daughter’s American Girl dolls. And if it is, it’s only a hobby, and not her raison d’être, and not something she is identified by.
    Both, the Chasidic guy and woman who want to expand their intellectual horizons, pursue higher education, etc, CAN do so, if they are savvy enough to know how to play the system. But as ‘dumbed down’ and vapid as it is in general, it is way more so for the Chasidic female.
    As I am writing this, I realize that to a large degree my gripes with the Chasidic system are similar to those of women pre Women’s Lib. Perhaps my issues are not Chasidic specific, but more so old school, traditional society in general.

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  18. Each year, schools get way more applicants for teaching jobs than there are jobs available. I'm pretty sure some girls would take teaching jobs even if it offered nothing in pay! What motivation, then, do schools have to increase wages for their teachers?

    So women are not equal.

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  19. I realized, as I began to articulate my thoughts on the topic of Hasidic girls' vs. boys' education, that there are so many nuances and details to analyze, I’d be better off writing a separate post about it. However, I do want to add a short comment to this discussion, because I can see that some readers have formed a wrong impression of my thesis. To put it concisely, I do not claim that Hasidism treats women equally in matters of formal Judaism. The argument that Hoezen makes—For better or worse, Chasidic men are expected to grow, develop and perform in two cardinal areas; in torah learning, and in business)—is valid, which means that by extension, Hasidic women cannot become respected talmidei chochomim or respected dayanim or respected anything in the status parts of Orthodox Judaism. (This is not to say that there aren’t intellectual women who are very much respected as public speakers or teachers or principals or even as people who are knowledgeable of halacha. But it is a sort of local respect by individuals who know them, not the respect of Judaism itself.)

    I actually alluded to this in my post when I wrote the paragraph that begins with, “Part of the reason for this stereotype, I believe, is a trickle-down effect of feminists’ struggle within Judaism….” If you read till the end of this paragraph, you should basically understand what I’m arguing. Yes, there is inequality in the formal sector of OJ. No, hasidic women are not subjugated or abused in the social/domestic arena. That’s it in a nutshell.

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  20. Hey HH - surely men are also bound in these communities by overzealous rules relating to chastity?

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